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* Matrix chat room about NNCP
@ 2022-01-21 20:44 John Goerzen
  2022-01-23 14:33 ` Sergey Matveev
  2022-01-24 13:20 ` Jonathan Lane
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: John Goerzen @ 2022-01-21 20:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: nncp-devel

Hello,

I've been hanging out in the Yggdrasil community on Matrix (aka Element)
and have been getting a number of people interested in NNCP.  One of
them asked about an NNCP IRC or Matrix room.  I said there wasn't one,
but went ahead and created it.  It is #nncp:matrix.org and you can join
from your favorite neighborhood Matrix server, or use https://matrix.to/#/#nncp:matrix.org
to help.

Matrix is a distributed global chat network, sort of like an open-source
non-centralized Slack or a modernized IRC.

- John

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

• * Re: Matrix chat room about NNCP
    2022-01-21 20:44 Matrix chat room about NNCP John Goerzen
  @ 2022-01-23 14:33 ` Sergey Matveev
    2022-01-24  3:36   ` John Goerzen
    2022-01-24 13:20 ` Jonathan Lane
    1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
  From: Sergey Matveev @ 2022-01-23 14:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
    To: nncp-devel
  
  [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1801 bytes --]
  
  Greetings!
  
  *** John Goerzen [2022-01-21 14:44]:
  >Matrix is a distributed global chat network, sort of like an open-source
  >non-centralized Slack or a modernized IRC.
  
  Just my two cents about Matrix:
  
  Unfortunately literally all the time I wanted to try it, I have never
  succeeded in its server building/running. Neither with Python-based, nor
  with Go-based. I do not remember details, but all of that was very
  complicated, VERY resource hungry (Python-based implementations) and my
  patience ended before I could finish all that installation. If I can not
  run my own federated server instance -- no way I will use messaging solution.
  
  Also when I looked at available clients, there were no console/TUI/CLI
  based with OLM-encryption support. So I just did not see why I would
  bother with Matrix at all -- it just lacked (lacks?) usable server and
  client implementations. I remember how easy it was to setup XMPP-server
  with Prosody.im. I know how easily you can run IRC-server with
  feature-rich https://ergo.chat/ or with my minimalistic
  http://www.git.cypherpunks.ru/?p=goircd.git;a=summary. But when I tried
  Matrix servers/clients half a dozen times -- there were not any close to
  all that simplicity.
  
  I do not want to say that Matrix is bad (as with TLS :-)). Just my
  personal experience was awful. I have not looked at its web-based
  clients -- I would not use that anyway, but probably they are ok,
  in comparison to similar kind of software. Possibly I needed to make
  just single small step to finish my installations of Matrix servers,
  but my patience is too limited. Mainly I just do not see any advantages
  that would force me to try all of it again.
  
  -- 
  Sergey Matveev (http://www.stargrave.org/)
  OpenPGP: CF60 E89A 5923 1E76 E263  6422 AE1A 8109 E498 57EF
  
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  ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

• • * Re: Matrix chat room about NNCP
      2022-01-23 14:33 ` Sergey Matveev
    @ 2022-01-24  3:36   ` John Goerzen
      2022-01-24 16:56     ` Sergey Matveev
      0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
    From: John Goerzen @ 2022-01-24  3:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
      To: Sergey Matveev; +Cc: nncp-devel
    
    On Sun, Jan 23 2022, Sergey Matveev wrote:
    
    > Greetings!
    >
    > *** John Goerzen [2022-01-21 14:44]:
    >>Matrix is a distributed global chat network, sort of like an open-source
    >>non-centralized Slack or a modernized IRC.
    >
    > Just my two cents about Matrix:
    
    Before I reply:
    
    I just bridged it with irc.oftc.net #nncp also.  So you can definitely
    use it via IRC as well.
    
    > Unfortunately literally all the time I wanted to try it, I have never
    > succeeded in its server building/running. Neither with Python-based, nor
    
    The reference server, Synapse, is indeed Python-based and
    resource-hungry.  I deploy it with
    https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy but I think
    most people just pick an existing server.
    
    > Also when I looked at available clients, there were no console/TUI/CLI
    > based with OLM-encryption support. So I just did not see why I would
    
    E2E Encryption doesn't matter much for a public room, and is usually
    disabled in them for that reason.  But I believe E2E is supported in
    most TUI clients these days; for instance, in weechat, which I'm using.
    
    > bother with Matrix at all -- it just lacked (lacks?) usable server and
    > client implementations. I remember how easy it was to setup XMPP-server
    > with Prosody.im. I know how easily you can run IRC-server with
    > feature-rich https://ergo.chat/ or with my minimalistic
    > http://www.git.cypherpunks.ru/?p=goircd.git;a=summary. But when I tried
    > Matrix servers/clients half a dozen times -- there were not any close to
    > all that simplicity.
    
    I ran XMPP servers myself for awhile.  There are a lot of pathologies
    with them that Matrix just gets right.  Element is a fantastic client,
    and is cross-platform (web, mobile, etc).  It solves the multiple
    devices connected problem a lot better than any XMPP clients did,
    syncing read status, etc.  Basically Matrix is building a distributed,
    open, credible competitor to Slack - and I'm glad of it.
    
    > but my patience is too limited. Mainly I just do not see any advantages
    > that would force me to try all of it again.
    
    Everyone in the world is unique, and I'm glad of it.  To each his own
    :-)
    
    Feel free to drop by, on Matrix or IRC, if you like.
    
    - John
    
    ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

  • • * Re: Matrix chat room about NNCP
        2022-01-24  3:36   ` John Goerzen
      @ 2022-01-24 16:56     ` Sergey Matveev
        0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
      From: Sergey Matveev @ 2022-01-24 16:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
        To: nncp-devel
      
      [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3652 bytes --]
      
      *** John Goerzen [2022-01-23 21:36]:
      >I just bridged it with irc.oftc.net #nncp also.  So you can definitely
      >use it via IRC as well.
      
      Cool! I added references to it and Matrix channel to
      http://www.nncpgo.org/Contacts.html
      
      >The reference server, Synapse, is indeed Python-based and
      >resource-hungry.  I deploy it with
      >https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy but I think
      >most people just pick an existing server.
      
      I tried to run Matrix today again. I do not look at anything written on
      Python: its current packaging ecosystems (PyPI) is just broken. Moreover
      huge quantity of packages have some kind of broken requirements.txt, for
      example mentioning "cryptography" package, that requires now Rust for
      its building. It is TOO burdensome to install anything Pythonic now,
      because of broken ecosystem
      
      I tried https://matrix.org/docs/projects/server/dendrite server. Build
      it, created configuration files, no issues. Then I tried:
      https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/gomuks/
      https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/circle/
      https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/mm
      as a Matrix client. After half an hour of dependencies building,
      "circle" failed compiling -- I did not bother finding what was the
      problem. gomuks lacks documentation in its repository. Its README point
      to some JavaScript-required website. Ok, anyway I build it, run it. It
      failed running some ncurses-related utility. Installed it. Run it again,
      point to my Matrix server instance. It prints that it is in sync with...
      something. After a while that message disappears, I see two windows,
      fact of connection to the Matrix server, but nothing happens anymore. I
      can not type any commands or even quit. So I killed it. I build mm, run
      it with filled up configuration file, added some debug messages printing
      to the console, saw that it successfully logged in on my server. But
      according to documentation, it is not capable of joining any rooms by
      itself, that is why I did not see any FIFO files created on filesystem.
      I tried https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge with my own IRC server. It
      successfully logs to Matrix and IRC server, but I get response from
      matrix.org that I am not authorized joining #nncp channel. I suppose
      that I have to join it through some "ordinary" Matrix client, but
      Matterbridge only bridges channels together.
      
      So... I still did not run any of the clients capable joining rooms.
      Python -- no way nowadays, its completely broken. I saw that on
      GNU/Linux systems with binary wheels allowed -- it will succeed in more
      cases than on FreeBSD. Web-based clients of course is not an option.
      Probably I will try that after a few years... again :-)
      
      I was told that WeeChat plugin definitely works. But... again, it is
      written on Python and I just do not want to learn another IRC client (I
      use irssi).
      
      Possibly Matrix solves many issues with XMPP, but I have never ever
      succeeded and seen any of its channels in my terminal at all. More than
      a half of solutions suggest using some web-pages with JavaScript
      required -- no deal. At least I succeeded in server setup (probably).
      But XMPP just have dozens of clients and servers easy to setup and run.
      Actually I am confused with that, because JSON and HTTP seems so easy to
      be used by modern ecosystems, but seems that majority of people are not
      interested in desktop and terminals anymore.
      
      >Feel free to drop by, on Matrix or IRC, if you like.
      
      I have joined #nncp channel on irc.oftc.net, just for the interest.
      
      -- 
      Sergey Matveev (http://www.stargrave.org/)
      OpenPGP: CF60 E89A 5923 1E76 E263  6422 AE1A 8109 E498 57EF
      
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      ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

• * Re: Matrix chat room about NNCP
    2022-01-21 20:44 Matrix chat room about NNCP John Goerzen
    2022-01-23 14:33 ` Sergey Matveev
  @ 2022-01-24 13:20 ` Jonathan Lane
    2022-01-24 17:01   ` Sergey Matveev
    2022-01-24 17:30   ` John Goerzen
    1 sibling, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
  From: Jonathan Lane @ 2022-01-24 13:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
    To: nncp-devel
  
  On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 02:44:05PM -0600, John Goerzen wrote:
  > Hello,
  > 
  > I've been hanging out in the Yggdrasil community on Matrix (aka Element)
  > and have been getting a number of people interested in NNCP.  One of
  > them asked about an NNCP IRC or Matrix room.  I said there wasn't one,
  > but went ahead and created it.  It is #nncp:matrix.org and you can join
  > from your favorite neighborhood Matrix server, or use https://matrix.to/#/#nncp:matrix.org
  > to help.
  > 
  > Matrix is a distributed global chat network, sort of like an open-source
  > non-centralized Slack or a modernized IRC.
  > 
  > - John
  > 
  Thanks.  I haven't been using Matrix much recently, but it's always nice
  to see more adoption.
  
  On a related note, is https://nncp.quux.org/ supposed to have the
  default Debian apache2 homepage?
  
  -- 
  tidux@sdf•org
  SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org
  
  ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

• • * Re: Matrix chat room about NNCP
      2022-01-24 13:20 ` Jonathan Lane
    @ 2022-01-24 17:01   ` Sergey Matveev
      2022-01-24 17:30   ` John Goerzen
      1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
    From: Sergey Matveev @ 2022-01-24 17:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
      To: nncp-devel
    
    [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 320 bytes --]
    
    *** Jonathan Lane [2022-01-24 13:20]:
    >On a related note, is https://nncp.quux.org/ supposed to have the
    >default Debian apache2 homepage?
    
    I suppose that domain should be https://nncp.mirrors.quux.org/
    
    -- 
    Sergey Matveev (http://www.stargrave.org/)
    OpenPGP: CF60 E89A 5923 1E76 E263  6422 AE1A 8109 E498 57EF
    
    [-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
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    ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

  • * Re: Matrix chat room about NNCP
      2022-01-24 13:20 ` Jonathan Lane
      2022-01-24 17:01   ` Sergey Matveev
    @ 2022-01-24 17:30   ` John Goerzen
      1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
    From: John Goerzen @ 2022-01-24 17:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
      To: Jonathan Lane; +Cc: nncp-devel
    
    
    On Mon, Jan 24 2022, Jonathan Lane wrote:
    
    >>
    > Thanks.  I haven't been using Matrix much recently, but it's always nice
    > to see more adoption.
    >
    > On a related note, is https://nncp.quux.org/ supposed to have the
    > default Debian apache2 homepage?
    
    Well, really it's not supposed to be listening on port 80 at all (that's
    the hostname for the quux public relay for nncp-caller to call).  I
    guess I should make it redirect somewhere useful.  Thanks for mentioning
    it.
    
    - John
    
    ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2022-01-24 17:31 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2022-01-21 20:44 Matrix chat room about NNCP John Goerzen
2022-01-23 14:33 ` Sergey Matveev
2022-01-24  3:36   ` John Goerzen
2022-01-24 16:56     ` Sergey Matveev
2022-01-24 13:20 ` Jonathan Lane
2022-01-24 17:01   ` Sergey Matveev
2022-01-24 17:30   ` John Goerzen