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* Matrix chat room about NNCP
@ 2022-01-21 20:44 John Goerzen
2022-01-23 14:33 ` Sergey Matveev
2022-01-24 13:20 ` Jonathan Lane
0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: John Goerzen @ 2022-01-21 20:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nncp-devel
Hello,
I've been hanging out in the Yggdrasil community on Matrix (aka Element)
and have been getting a number of people interested in NNCP. One of
them asked about an NNCP IRC or Matrix room. I said there wasn't one,
but went ahead and created it. It is #nncp:matrix.org and you can join
from your favorite neighborhood Matrix server, or use https://matrix.to/#/#nncp:matrix.org
to help.
Matrix is a distributed global chat network, sort of like an open-source
non-centralized Slack or a modernized IRC.
- John
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Matrix chat room about NNCP
2022-01-21 20:44 Matrix chat room about NNCP John Goerzen
@ 2022-01-23 14:33 ` Sergey Matveev
2022-01-24 3:36 ` John Goerzen
2022-01-24 13:20 ` Jonathan Lane
1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Sergey Matveev @ 2022-01-23 14:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nncp-devel
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Greetings!
*** John Goerzen [2022-01-21 14:44]:
>Matrix is a distributed global chat network, sort of like an open-source
>non-centralized Slack or a modernized IRC.
Just my two cents about Matrix:
Unfortunately literally all the time I wanted to try it, I have never
succeeded in its server building/running. Neither with Python-based, nor
with Go-based. I do not remember details, but all of that was very
complicated, VERY resource hungry (Python-based implementations) and my
patience ended before I could finish all that installation. If I can not
run my own federated server instance -- no way I will use messaging solution.
Also when I looked at available clients, there were no console/TUI/CLI
based with OLM-encryption support. So I just did not see why I would
bother with Matrix at all -- it just lacked (lacks?) usable server and
client implementations. I remember how easy it was to setup XMPP-server
with Prosody.im. I know how easily you can run IRC-server with
feature-rich https://ergo.chat/ or with my minimalistic
http://www.git.cypherpunks.ru/?p=goircd.git;a=summary. But when I tried
Matrix servers/clients half a dozen times -- there were not any close to
all that simplicity.
I do not want to say that Matrix is bad (as with TLS :-)). Just my
personal experience was awful. I have not looked at its web-based
clients -- I would not use that anyway, but probably they are ok,
in comparison to similar kind of software. Possibly I needed to make
just single small step to finish my installations of Matrix servers,
but my patience is too limited. Mainly I just do not see any advantages
that would force me to try all of it again.
--
Sergey Matveev (http://www.stargrave.org/)
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Matrix chat room about NNCP
2022-01-23 14:33 ` Sergey Matveev
@ 2022-01-24 3:36 ` John Goerzen
2022-01-24 16:56 ` Sergey Matveev
0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: John Goerzen @ 2022-01-24 3:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Sergey Matveev; +Cc: nncp-devel
On Sun, Jan 23 2022, Sergey Matveev wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> *** John Goerzen [2022-01-21 14:44]:
>>Matrix is a distributed global chat network, sort of like an open-source
>>non-centralized Slack or a modernized IRC.
>
> Just my two cents about Matrix:
Before I reply:
I just bridged it with irc.oftc.net #nncp also. So you can definitely
use it via IRC as well.
> Unfortunately literally all the time I wanted to try it, I have never
> succeeded in its server building/running. Neither with Python-based, nor
The reference server, Synapse, is indeed Python-based and
resource-hungry. I deploy it with
https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy but I think
most people just pick an existing server.
> Also when I looked at available clients, there were no console/TUI/CLI
> based with OLM-encryption support. So I just did not see why I would
E2E Encryption doesn't matter much for a public room, and is usually
disabled in them for that reason. But I believe E2E is supported in
most TUI clients these days; for instance, in weechat, which I'm using.
> bother with Matrix at all -- it just lacked (lacks?) usable server and
> client implementations. I remember how easy it was to setup XMPP-server
> with Prosody.im. I know how easily you can run IRC-server with
> feature-rich https://ergo.chat/ or with my minimalistic
> http://www.git.cypherpunks.ru/?p=goircd.git;a=summary. But when I tried
> Matrix servers/clients half a dozen times -- there were not any close to
> all that simplicity.
I ran XMPP servers myself for awhile. There are a lot of pathologies
with them that Matrix just gets right. Element is a fantastic client,
and is cross-platform (web, mobile, etc). It solves the multiple
devices connected problem a lot better than any XMPP clients did,
syncing read status, etc. Basically Matrix is building a distributed,
open, credible competitor to Slack - and I'm glad of it.
> but my patience is too limited. Mainly I just do not see any advantages
> that would force me to try all of it again.
Everyone in the world is unique, and I'm glad of it. To each his own
:-)
Feel free to drop by, on Matrix or IRC, if you like.
- John
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Matrix chat room about NNCP
2022-01-21 20:44 Matrix chat room about NNCP John Goerzen
2022-01-23 14:33 ` Sergey Matveev
@ 2022-01-24 13:20 ` Jonathan Lane
2022-01-24 17:01 ` Sergey Matveev
2022-01-24 17:30 ` John Goerzen
1 sibling, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Jonathan Lane @ 2022-01-24 13:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nncp-devel
On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 02:44:05PM -0600, John Goerzen wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've been hanging out in the Yggdrasil community on Matrix (aka Element)
> and have been getting a number of people interested in NNCP. One of
> them asked about an NNCP IRC or Matrix room. I said there wasn't one,
> but went ahead and created it. It is #nncp:matrix.org and you can join
> from your favorite neighborhood Matrix server, or use https://matrix.to/#/#nncp:matrix.org
> to help.
>
> Matrix is a distributed global chat network, sort of like an open-source
> non-centralized Slack or a modernized IRC.
>
> - John
>
Thanks. I haven't been using Matrix much recently, but it's always nice
to see more adoption.
On a related note, is https://nncp.quux.org/ supposed to have the
default Debian apache2 homepage?
--
tidux@sdf•org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Matrix chat room about NNCP
2022-01-24 3:36 ` John Goerzen
@ 2022-01-24 16:56 ` Sergey Matveev
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Sergey Matveev @ 2022-01-24 16:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nncp-devel
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*** John Goerzen [2022-01-23 21:36]:
>I just bridged it with irc.oftc.net #nncp also. So you can definitely
>use it via IRC as well.
Cool! I added references to it and Matrix channel to
http://www.nncpgo.org/Contacts.html
>The reference server, Synapse, is indeed Python-based and
>resource-hungry. I deploy it with
>https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy but I think
>most people just pick an existing server.
I tried to run Matrix today again. I do not look at anything written on
Python: its current packaging ecosystems (PyPI) is just broken. Moreover
huge quantity of packages have some kind of broken requirements.txt, for
example mentioning "cryptography" package, that requires now Rust for
its building. It is TOO burdensome to install anything Pythonic now,
because of broken ecosystem
I tried https://matrix.org/docs/projects/server/dendrite server. Build
it, created configuration files, no issues. Then I tried:
https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/gomuks/
https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/circle/
https://matrix.org/docs/projects/client/mm
as a Matrix client. After half an hour of dependencies building,
"circle" failed compiling -- I did not bother finding what was the
problem. gomuks lacks documentation in its repository. Its README point
to some JavaScript-required website. Ok, anyway I build it, run it. It
failed running some ncurses-related utility. Installed it. Run it again,
point to my Matrix server instance. It prints that it is in sync with...
something. After a while that message disappears, I see two windows,
fact of connection to the Matrix server, but nothing happens anymore. I
can not type any commands or even quit. So I killed it. I build mm, run
it with filled up configuration file, added some debug messages printing
to the console, saw that it successfully logged in on my server. But
according to documentation, it is not capable of joining any rooms by
itself, that is why I did not see any FIFO files created on filesystem.
I tried https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge with my own IRC server. It
successfully logs to Matrix and IRC server, but I get response from
matrix.org that I am not authorized joining #nncp channel. I suppose
that I have to join it through some "ordinary" Matrix client, but
Matterbridge only bridges channels together.
So... I still did not run any of the clients capable joining rooms.
Python -- no way nowadays, its completely broken. I saw that on
GNU/Linux systems with binary wheels allowed -- it will succeed in more
cases than on FreeBSD. Web-based clients of course is not an option.
Probably I will try that after a few years... again :-)
I was told that WeeChat plugin definitely works. But... again, it is
written on Python and I just do not want to learn another IRC client (I
use irssi).
Possibly Matrix solves many issues with XMPP, but I have never ever
succeeded and seen any of its channels in my terminal at all. More than
a half of solutions suggest using some web-pages with JavaScript
required -- no deal. At least I succeeded in server setup (probably).
But XMPP just have dozens of clients and servers easy to setup and run.
Actually I am confused with that, because JSON and HTTP seems so easy to
be used by modern ecosystems, but seems that majority of people are not
interested in desktop and terminals anymore.
>Feel free to drop by, on Matrix or IRC, if you like.
I have joined #nncp channel on irc.oftc.net, just for the interest.
--
Sergey Matveev (http://www.stargrave.org/)
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Matrix chat room about NNCP
2022-01-24 13:20 ` Jonathan Lane
@ 2022-01-24 17:01 ` Sergey Matveev
2022-01-24 17:30 ` John Goerzen
1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Sergey Matveev @ 2022-01-24 17:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nncp-devel
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*** Jonathan Lane [2022-01-24 13:20]:
>On a related note, is https://nncp.quux.org/ supposed to have the
>default Debian apache2 homepage?
I suppose that domain should be https://nncp.mirrors.quux.org/
--
Sergey Matveev (http://www.stargrave.org/)
OpenPGP: CF60 E89A 5923 1E76 E263 6422 AE1A 8109 E498 57EF
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Matrix chat room about NNCP
2022-01-24 13:20 ` Jonathan Lane
2022-01-24 17:01 ` Sergey Matveev
@ 2022-01-24 17:30 ` John Goerzen
1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: John Goerzen @ 2022-01-24 17:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jonathan Lane; +Cc: nncp-devel
On Mon, Jan 24 2022, Jonathan Lane wrote:
>>
> Thanks. I haven't been using Matrix much recently, but it's always nice
> to see more adoption.
>
> On a related note, is https://nncp.quux.org/ supposed to have the
> default Debian apache2 homepage?
Well, really it's not supposed to be listening on port 80 at all (that's
the hostname for the quux public relay for nncp-caller to call). I
guess I should make it redirect somewhere useful. Thanks for mentioning
it.
- John
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2022-01-24 17:31 UTC | newest]
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2022-01-21 20:44 Matrix chat room about NNCP John Goerzen
2022-01-23 14:33 ` Sergey Matveev
2022-01-24 3:36 ` John Goerzen
2022-01-24 16:56 ` Sergey Matveev
2022-01-24 13:20 ` Jonathan Lane
2022-01-24 17:01 ` Sergey Matveev
2022-01-24 17:30 ` John Goerzen