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From: John Goerzen <jgoerzen@complete•org>
To: Sergey Matveev <stargrave@stargrave•org>
Cc: nncp-devel@lists.cypherpunks.ru
Subject: Re: Suggestions for newbie accessibility
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2022 15:38:32 -0600 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87a6fmqgiv.fsf@complete.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Ye2bxMI8NFp1178K@stargrave.org>
On Sun, Jan 23 2022, Sergey Matveev wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> *** John Goerzen [2022-01-22 09:13]:
>>- On the build instructions doc page - nobody has redo installed
>>or
>>really knows what it is. Rather than the default being to show
>>using
>>redo, have the default be "./contrib/do" and mention
>>alternatives
>>below.
>
> I would be glad people moving from *completely useless* Make to
> redo. I
You have no trouble convincing me make has issues. I started
using scons about 20 years ago now because of that.
The comment in the channel was:
"Damn I am a bit lost 😆, this is quite the build system"
I finally told him to just run "contrib/do all" and that worked.
(The usual go build he also tried failed with TLS errors from
cypherpunks.ru due to the unknown CA)
Most people have no need for make, or things like it, anymore.
Basically every language ecosystem except C/C++ have their own
build tools now, which are widely used. I still occasionally
reach for make when I have a simple make-ish job, but that's not
often. I did a stint working on C code a couple of years ago, and
that was using make, but aside from certain bits of Debian
packaging scripts that use make for historical reasons, I haven't
touched it or anything like it in anything resembling a serious
way for over a decade (save that brief stint doing C work, and
even that was soon transformed into work to migrate parts of the
code base to Rust).
If somebody "just wants to install NNCP" and gets instructions
that get in the way of that, it sours them on both redo and NNCP.
Not beneficial for any goals.
I don't mind the advertisement, and sorted through it easily
enough myself, but not giving a straightforward recipe by default
can be detrimental.
>>- It might be useful to have a sort of tutorial illustrating
>>generating
>>a config on two systems, copying the neigh/self blocks between
>>them,
>>authorizing them to do things, etc. I could volunteer to write
>>this.
>
> Initially http://www.nncpgo.org/Workflow.html page was intended
> for
> hinting for the first steps one should do with NNCP. But I agree
> that it
> is too terse. It should be definitely expanded. If you wish to
> write
> that -- I would be glad for that help!
I am thinking I may write up something and post it somewhere, and
give you permission to copy as much of it as you want for the NNCP
manual, if that sounds good.
>>- Enabling multicast discovery by default could be a nice touch.
>
> MCD is enabled through configuration file with explicit
> interface names
> specifying. Unlike Yggdrasil, there is not regexp for them, so I
> can not
> just write ".*" there. However I can call net.Interfaces() to
> get all
> current interface names and set them uncommented in mcd-send
> entry with
> some default (for example 30sec) intervals, during nncp-cfgnew
> creation.
> I think it is ok.
The regexp in Yggdrasil is indeed nice. I don't know how easy it
would be to do that in NNCP. An alternative might be a special
token that would indicate "ALL". Interface names are not
particularly persistent these days and what is present when cfgnew
is run may not be what's there later.
>>- A default call configuration could also be nice for people
>>playing
>>around with nncp-caller for the first time.
>
> nncp-cfgnew and "Call configuration" documentation's section
> (http://www.nncpgo.org/Call.html) contain some examples. I can
> not
> imagine what else can be added there? And I can not recommend
> anything
> related to calls, like periodicity, onlinedeadline and similar
> things,
> because people's need are too varying here in my opinion.
That is fair. Let me think about this some more.
- John
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-01-23 21:39 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 5+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-01-22 15:13 Suggestions for newbie accessibility John Goerzen
2022-01-23 18:17 ` Sergey Matveev
2022-01-23 21:38 ` John Goerzen [this message]
2022-01-23 22:45 ` Sergey Matveev
2022-01-24 1:46 ` John Goerzen